This 4-6-0 Baldwin was built in 1890 (#11280), ex-AEC 20, exx-Alaska Northern 3, exxx-Northern Pacific 369, nee-Port Townsend Southern 3. It was acquired by the Alaska Railroad in 1915 and scrapped in 1930.
"I've pulled everything I have on the early ARR steamers, and am going through it. The more I look at ARR #20 data, the more I think that when it came to Alaska it went directly to the Alaska Engineering Comission(ARR), rather than the via the Alaska Northern. As to it going to the McKenna Limber Co., the dates would seem to allow that to be possible. I really don't have any info on McKenna Lumber.
"Are there good photos of this loco as NP #369, or as PTS #3 ?
"When I compare PTS #3 to ARR #20, I'm not really sure they're the same machine. Compare the photo of #20 to the diagram and photos that Mr. Hannum sent to John's ARR site. The style of the headlight, sand and steam domes are different, the position of the air pump is different, and the stack on PTS#3 looks wider and straight( a replacement ?), on #20 it's tapered (original ?). I know that these are all changeable items, but it seems odd.
"The ARR record keeping in the 1920's was very sloppy, with numerous errors, and I suspect more errors that we can't yet proove or disproove. Most of these have to do with the histories, purchase data, renumberings. The mechanical data seems more reliable, if it was wrong it probably would have been corrected..
"I am unaware of any existing Alaska Central or Alaska Northern records dealing with rolling stock. The early ARR records (which probably had the AC/AN records) burned in the early 50's in a shop fire. All of what we "know" has been reconstructed from various fragmentary sources. There are several mysteries/questions, and a lot of info that has only one reference or source.
"I understand that the Northern Pacific steam records exist in a
library in Minnesota, I haven't been able to purse that yet. I don't know
how far back they go.
The ARR equipment diagrams say that #20 was built by Rhode Island locomotive Works, came from the Alaska Northern, and was put in service in 1915. Locomotive historians Doug Richter and the late Gerald Best were convinced that #20 had the style details of a Baldwin, not a Rhode Island. I don't think it really came from the AN. It was put in service at Seward and used on the old AN part of the ARR during construction, and I've seen other stuff from Seward refered in ARR paperwok to being ex AN that weren't. (when the government started building the ARR, the were building in five directions, from three disconnected locations: Seward, Anchorage, Nenena. The office was in Anchorage. There was a bunch of equipment with the same #'s on different divisions, etc.
"What is different on the ARR versus NP diagram (I had not seen the NP diagram before) are some mechanical items:
NP # 369 178 Tubes (Flues) 12'2.5" long heating surface 15.31 sq.ft. boiler pressure 140# hieght to to of stack 12'9.5"
ARR #20 218 Tubes (Flues) 12'7" long heating surface 15.79 sq.ft. boiler pressure 175# hieght to to of stack 13'8"
Although tenders can be easily changed or swapped , the tender capacities are very different:
NP #369 9.3 tons coal 3800 gallons water
ARR #20 6 tons coal 3500 gallons water
"I'm tending to think we have a mystery on our hands ! I'll be digging deeper ! Any comments, thoughts, additional info, or a 'hey Don, you messed up' are welcome."- Don Marenzi