Alaska Railroad Photographs

Subject: Re: FW: 6 Old Rosters, comments
Date: Friday, December 2, 2005 3:15 AM
From: Don Marenzi
To: john@alaskarails.org

Hi,

Thanks for sending the rosters. I have seen most of that stuff, but there were a few new pages. It will take some time to go through it.

One thing in researching the ARR early days, there are a lot of conflicting reports/paperwork. There are contradictions and errors in the ARR's own paperwork. And a lot of what has been published is wrong too.

Here are a few thoughts from "memory":

Standard gauge #2 was an ancient 1870's/1880's era 0-4-0 w/tender. Possibly acquired with the Alaska Northern. I can't imagine the AEC would have bought it, but then again... At one time it was lettered as U.S. #1 at Seward. (just what the ARR needed, another # 1 !!!). I have pursued this mystery engine for about 20 years, my current best guess is that it was x CB&Q, then probably sold to a dealer, It did not come from Panama.
Interesting that the 1930 list still has it listed, and at the same value as the 1923 list, but it doesn't show on 1923 mileage list, or in the comments for that year. Hmmmm, sounds like 'creative' accounting here; note that all the other loco's have a lower value in 1930 than in 1923. My guess is that this engine was probably out of service before 1923, I wouldn't be surprised if someone copied out dated information.
This is the engine Barrett/Henderson list in the ARR roster in the old MooseGooser as: "#4, 0-4-0, possibly xPanama, of a foreign build"

Standard gauge #5 was an 0-4-0ST, bought new; (smaller and NOT identical to #1, the 0-4-2ST, as has been published in some rosters.) I've never seen a photo of #5. It was apparently identical to a US Navy engine built approximately same time. It isn't the NG #5 in Palmer.

Standard gauge #6, later #1, now on Display in Anchorage, was converted from a NG dinkey in the late 20's. It was ICC #802 as NG. I have found no record of it having been used during ARR construction, but it might have been (possibly at the Eska mine), there does exist some records for dinkey usage/location during construction. Sorry that this doesn't jive with what the tourist's are told about it being ARR's first loco !!!

The AEC apparently brought in more dinkey's than they actually used in construction.

Some dinkey's were kept in a shed in Anchorage during the 20's (called the 'Dinkey Shed"). My understanding was that the ARR grabbed the NG #802 from the shed and converted it to standard gauge in 1926/27. It's first standard gauge use was as a switcher at Nenana.

I don't recall NG #2 off hand, so I won't say much on it without some research. One quick comment, in the 1923 statement of rolling stock, I suspect #2 might be a misprint for #4; it doesn't mention a #4; note that the 1923 "locomotives furnished... doesn't mention a #2, but does mention a #4. It would make sense that this could be a clerical error.
Perhaps the "mystery" NG #2 is another Porter 0-4-0ST that there is one poor picture of, location unsure, and it's not #1, different details/style.

NG 4 & 6 are believed to come from the Corps of Engineers, probably from the Pacific Northwest. NG #5 (at Palmer) might be same source. I haven't seen any record of NG #5 during ARR construction either. It might have gone directly to the Eska mine area, or been stored in the dinky shed, pulled out after construction and sent to the mine. #4 and #6 were used during ARR construction, in the Nenana area if I remember correctly.

NG#19,20,21,22 were obtained from the Corps of Engineer office in Portland, Oregon. They were all used in ARR construction. #21, 22 were leased to coal mine operators in the 20's, #21 needed repairs and was sent to Anchorage in the late 20's and 30's. (was the NG#5 pulled from the 'Dinkey shed' to replace it then ???, or was it already at the mine ???). Not sure if 19 and 20 were at the mine, and I've heard unconfirmed information that there was an 18. But there must have been more than 2 dinky's at the mine because:

After the NG at the mine went out of use, 3,4 or 5 NG dinkeys (from the mines) were moved to Palmer. They "sat in a lot behind the hotel" in Palmer into the mid 50's. Kids played on them, as they got overgrown. #5 displayed at Palmer was one of these. The others disappeared. I've never seen a photo of this, but have heard this from a few sources, that I consider reliable.

Another "MooseGooser" rumor states that one NG dinkey left near the Moose Creek mine was washed away during a flood in the late 50's/early 60's. I have been unable to confirm this, but I tend to doubt it.

NG #830 was one of six 0-6-ST's that were supposedly sent to the AEC, with some going to Nenana, some to Anchorage (the dinky shed ???). Supposedly some were never even uncrated. As far as I know only #830 actually arrived/was used.

Note also that TV #1 was out of service by 1923, so it was never really operated as ARR #1. It was used during the AEC construction period, there are photos of it lettered U.S.#1.

Mr. Hilton, I've admired your White Pass research; I lurk on the WP&Y list. I did a lot of similar WP&Y rolling stock research in the 1970's/80's. You've gone further, with great results !

More neat ARR NG stuff: They inspected Klondike Mines #4 2-6-2 in the 1920's, but didn't buy it.

There's also a letter referring to "number the new NG loco #153" The date was when they acquired #151, before #152 was bought, so I suspect that they might have planned to renumber the NG 50, 51, 52 to 150, 151,152; then the "new"(used ,really) 2-8-0 would be in order as #153. ??? Speculation.

If I've made any mistakes, sorry, I'm shooting mostly from memory. Sources that need to be given credit for this info include: Henderson, Barrett, Keith Christensen, Doug Richter, Jim Walsh, Pat Durand, and others, plus lots of pictures and records.

Don Marenzi

The information on this page was last updated 2/28/08